接受CCN采访：马英九拒绝美国为台湾作战

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　　在谈到美中台关系时，马英九表示:“我们会向美国购买武器，但是我们绝对不会要求美国为台湾而战。这一点非常明确。”
　　美国对台军售以及台海如果发生冲突美国是否介入是美中台三角关系的敏感话题。
　　马英九总统用了never“绝对不会”这样的字眼，说台湾不会要求美国为台湾而战，这番话立刻在台湾引起了在野党的强烈反应，认为他这番话的意思是台湾不需要美国了。
　　民进党主席蔡英文说:“你是不是要以放弃原则，放弃防卫，放弃自己对亚洲稳定力量的责任去屈从中国的意志；总统做这种讲话是非常不恰当的。”
　　甚至有民进党立委指责马英九出卖台湾。
　　马英九总统本人这几天没有在公开场合解释他的立场；不过其他官员纷纷出面为马英九辩解。
　　行政院长吴敦义表示:“总统坚定地表达了我们全国国人用自己的力量保卫自己国土的决心跟信心。”
　　总统府发言人罗智强说:“民进党在这个问题上不用大作文章。这段谈话也并不排除美方给我们提供防御性武器，以及我们继续跟美国方面进行各项军事安全合作的计划。”
　　罗智强还说，马英九总统表示不会要求美国为台而战，用意在于强调台湾不会对自己的安全袖手，而要美国参战。
　　马英九在采访中也回答了有关台湾主权，两岸经济合作架构协议ECFA等众多问题。
　　不过，目前似乎他说的这句“不要求美国为台湾而战”的话引起了最多的关注。

马英九接受专访：我们永远不会要求美国为台湾而战 （台湾网，2010年5月2日）
　　马英九日前接受美国“有线电视新闻网”（CN*）卫星连线专访，在记者三度追问下，说出“我们永远不会要求美国为台湾而战。”
　　据台湾《中国时报》报道，马英九受访时以英文回答“we will never ask the Americans to fight for Taiwan”，他所使用的“never”一字，“‘永不’要求美国为台湾而战”的意旨，比“总统府”网站公布的译文“‘不会’要求美国为台湾而战”更强烈。
　　台湾历任领导人于因应美国是否对台海局势出兵的议题上，未曾如此公开且明确地使用“never”的字眼。
　　一旦台海发生战事，美国是否介入，一直是中国大陆、台湾、美国三角关系里的敏感议题，CN*在专访马后，随即成为CN*网站首页的头条新闻，并以“Ma：Taiwan won’t ask U.S. to fight China”为标题报导。
　　根据“总统府”网站译文，CN*记者问及马英九，“您提到中国大陆对台瞄准导弹，让我问您一个问题，如果可以的话，请您立即回应这个在美国时而被问到的问题：美国为何要为台湾冒这么大的险？”
　　马英九回答，“目前美国承受的风险为六十年来最低，过去的风险远远超过现在，因为我们采取与中国大陆和解政策的努力结果，紧张情势已大幅舒缓，这就是为何如同过去的政府，现任政府对过去两年达到的成果感到非常满意，我们将持续降低风险并向美国军购，但我们不会要求美国为台湾而战，这是非常清楚的事。”
　　其中，在关键部份，根据CN*引述的英文原文是：“We will continue to reduce the risks so that we will purchase arms from the United States, but we will never ask the Americans to fight for Taiwan. This is something that is very, very clear.”“我们会持续降低（台海冲突）风险，因此我们将向美国购买武器，但我们永远不会要求美国为台湾打仗，这是很清楚的事。”
　　马英九又称，军售案对维持台海的和平与稳定至关重要，“如果美国将对台军售减到现有水准以下，将会降低此一区域的信心。台湾需要这些武器保卫‘国家’及其民主”。

马英九接受CCN采访英文全文：

TRANSCRIPT

Note:  This is a rush transcript.  This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, HOST, "AMANPOUR":  Thank you so much, indeed, for joining us, Mr. President.
PRES. MA YING-JEOU , TAIWAN :  Thank you, Miss. Amanpour.
AMANPOUR: Let me get straight down to brass tacks. There are many  in Taiwan who worry that you are not pro-independent, that you have not said once, after getting elected, that Taiwan is about having an independent nation. .
MA: Well, the Republic of China on Taiwan has been an independent, sovereign state for 99 years. There is no reason to declare independent twice.
AMANPOUR: Well, clearly, Mr. President, a lot of Taiwanese expect to hear it from you or at least to hear a strong explanation of why you don't say that. And there are many Taiwanese who say that they are concerned that you are, perhaps, compromising Taiwan 's sovereignty in order to be in the good graces of China .
How do you answer that to your people?
MA: All these accusations are ungrounded. In the last two years, we have concluded 12 agreements with mainland China on cross-free flights, food safety, opening Taiwan to mainland tourists and jud -- mutual judicial assistance. In all these agreements, we not only viewed friendship, but solved many problems that were brought to Taiwan as a result of a fast-growing trade and investment relations with the Chinese mainland.
All these agreements contribute to prosperity and stability in Taiwan and nothing in these agreements comprised Taiwan 's sovereignty or autonomy.
AMANPOUR: Well, then how do you explain...
MA: And all these agreements are open documents.  
AMANPOUR: Well, I just wanted to say, if that's the case, how do you explain your rather low approval ratings?
I mean even after your latest debates, they're not up to even 40 percent -- about 38 percent, according to polls, support you; some 43 percent say they are dissatisfied.
How do you explain that?
MA: Well, our economy is recovering, but it has not recovered to the state before the financial tsunami resulted from the -- the U.S. economy. So we are trying to do more. And this year, the International Monetary Fund has forecast that we will have 6.5 percent growth in our GDP. So I'm -- I'm sure, when our economy becomes better, the situation will improve as a result.
AMANPOUR:  one of those issues that you hope will show results -- tangible results -- is a new agreement that you hope to sign with China , ECFA. And yet, your people are saying that they don't understand it...
MA: Well, the name of the agreement, Economic Cooperation Framework agreement, this is -- actually, it has three parts -- tariff reduction, investment guarantees and protection of intellectual property rights.  When I explain to people, people understand. Actually, after the Sunday debate with the opposition leaders, the people who understand and support ECFA has increased much more than it was before. So I'm very confident that when we continue to explain what it is in the future, people will support our policy. And this policy will be been -- very beneficial to Taiwan, but only to increase exports that attract more foreign direct investment from abroad.
AMANPOUR: Could I just -- I want to put up a graphic, a quote of what the president of China , Hu Jintao, has said after your election. he called on China and Taiwan to, quote, "build mutual trust, lay aside disputes, seek consensus and shelve differences and create a win-win situation."
Do you agree with that?
And how will you do that, beyond ECFA?
MA: In addition to economic relations, we also want to promote cultural exchange with the mainland. For instance, we have already allowed hundreds of thousands of mainland tourists to Taiwan . And they will appreciate -- actually, they do appreciate the way of life in Taiwan -- freedom, democracy and prosperity.
AMANPOUR: And so on what -- under what conditions would you agree to meet with the president of China ?
MA: I have no plan at the moment to meet with leaders from mainland China . I think the most important thing for Taiwan and for mainland China to do is to start with economic agreements, cultural exchange, educational exchange, to lay the groundwork for further relations. I think it is too premature for the top leaders of the two sides to meet at this moment.
AMANPOUR: So, many have sort of posited -- floated the idea that perhaps you would accept an invitation to the APEC Summit, that's hosted by the United States , next year. Apparently, it's going to be in Hawaii .
Would you accept such an invitation?
Obviously, if that place, so would the president of China be there.
MA: This is a -- a hypothetical situation proposed by an American scholar. We haven't got any information from the authorities of APEC on this issue.
AMANPOUR: But do you think that between now and then, if you were offered a formal invitation -- and as you say, you would need more details about such an invitation -- is it something that you would consider?
Which you accept such an invitation to APEC?
MA: As I said, this is really very hypothetical, because, in the past, we have been unable to send high level representatives to this APEC meeting. I don't see any possibility in the near future that the situation will change.
AMANPOUR: All right. Let me ask you about a future political situation, if you like.
What is your view and your position on the possibility of one nation, two systems, for instance, as China and Hong Kong have?
Would that work for China and Taiwan ?
MA: No. I don't think that is a good formula for Taiwan because Taiwan is very different from Hong Kong .
Taiwan is a democracy. We elect our own president, our own president, our own national parliament and we run our own business. We want to have closer trading and investment relations with the mainland. But certainly we want to have our own way of life.
So when I was inaugurated nearly two years ago, I had said very clearly that we will maintain the status quo, namely, no unification, no independence, no use of force under the framework of our 1946 constitution.
AMANPOUR: And, as you know, many people around the world look at China , including here in the United States , and see a growing powerhouse -- an economic powerhouse, a political powerhouse. Some are concerned about this -- its growing military capabilities.
Do you consider China to be a growing military threat, especially with its continued spending?
MA: Well, mainland China has been a military threat to Taiwan for 60 years. The reason we decided to improve relations with mainland China is trying to reduce the tensions of (INAUDIBLE) trade by means other than military. And as far as we were concerned, in the last two years, we have been able to ease that tension and make the region much more peaceful than it was before.

So I think it's very important to ease the tension, to reduce the atmosphere of hostilities. But the way of doing that, it is not necessary to engage in arms race. I think we have other ways to reduce the tension and we have done it, actually.
(break)
AMANPOUR: I wanted to carry on this conversation with the US-Taiwan relationship and, of course, the US-China relationship. Many have thought, over the past years and decades, that this is the issue that would cause a conflict or could cause a conflict between China and the United States .
Do you think that that is still a realistic concern?
MA: Well, yes. This is a real concern. But it was a concern. In the last two years, what we did in improving relations with the Chinese mainland has already diffused that tension. In other words, we have been able to reach many agreements with the mainland to effect more extensive trade investments and cultural exchange.
So the tensions across the Taiwan Straits, which used to be a flashpoint in East Asia , now is a place of peace and prosperity. So the relationship now, mainland China , the United States and Taiwan , has been the best in 60 years.
AMANPOUR: Well, on that note, you were talking before we went to a break with the need to sort of de-escalate any notion of an arms race.  And, of course, recently there was announced more than $6 billion of arms from the United States to Taiwan . And that obviously caused a fairly stiff response in Beijing .
And I want to play you what the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman said about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE through translator: The U.S. conduct severely harms China 's core interests and China-US ties. The cooperation between China and the United States on international and regional issues will be unavoidably affected. The United States bears the entire responsibility for this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So President Ma, that is the view from Beijing . And I raise that because it's also an increasing question in the United States .
I want to read for you what a former U.S. official has said about the relationship. This is David Rothkopf talking in "Foreign Policy" magazine earlier this year, saying that: " Taiwan is small. It offers us very little in the way of true strategic advantages. In the final analysis, it really is China 's for the taking. And it is certainly not worth going to war for, regardless of what U.S. rhetoric has been for decades."
What is your response to that?
MA: Well, we didn't ask the U.S. to get involved in the warfare with mainland China . We are only seeking the procurement of arms of a defensive character. Actually, what the U.S. did was in accordance with the Taiwan Relations Act, which is a federal law of the United States .
And we need those weapons of a defensive nature to defend Taiwan 's democracy. And this is actually not only in the interests of Taiwan , but also it's in the interests of the United States .
The view of an American scholar does not reflect the view of the administration.
AMANPOUR: And yet many Americans are saying, you know, is it really worth, given how extended America is -- in Iraq, in Afghanistan, fighting terrorism -- is it worth the risk of going to war on behalf of Taiwan?
So, again, the question that -- that I want to ask you is, what do you think would happen if the U.S. started to reduce arms sales to Taiwan in order to improve relations with China ?
And that's your goal, too, to improve relations with China .
MA: Well, if the U.S. reduces arms sales to Taiwan below the current level, it will reduce confidence in this part of the world.   Taiwan needs the arms to defend this country and its democracy. And -- but in the last two years, as a result of our efforts to improve relations with the Chinese mainland, we have already diffused the tension to a great extent. And this is more important than the reduce of arms.
Actually, the supply of arms by the United States to Taiwan increased Taiwan 's confidence and sense of security, particularly when Taiwan engaged the Chinese mainland in talks on trade and other matters. Taiwan wants to negotiate from a position of strength, not weakness.
So that is why Washington understands very well that arms sales will help keep regional peace, rather than the other way around.
AMANPOUR: Obviously, you've spoken about the Chinese missiles pointed toward Taiwan .  
But let me ask you just a quick response, if you can, to the question that's sometimes posed here -- why should Americans risk so much on behalf of Taiwan ?
MA: Well, as I said, at the moment, the risk for the United States is the lowest in 60 years. In the past, actually, the risk was much greater. But as a result of our efforts to have rapprochement with the Chinese mainland, the tension has been greatly reduced.
That is why the current administration, like previous administrations, is very pleased with what happened in the last two years. And we will continue to reduce the risks so that we will purchases arms from the United States , but we will never ask the Americans to fight for Taiwan . This is something that is very, very clear.
AMANPOUR: Who do you think will be the lead player in your region in -- in the near to mid future -- the U.S. or China ?
MA: I think, at the moment, the U.S. plays certainly a -- a bigger role. And -- but I think, in the future, the situation might change, as a result of a military imbalance. That is why I think the countries in the region should work together to reduce tensions and to increase stability and peace.
AMANPOUR: On that note, President Ma Ying-Jeou, thank you so much for joining us on this program.
MA: Thank you, Miss. Amanpour.
** Mandatory credit for use of material to ‘CN*’s Amanpour’.